I beleive that dogs need real meat and high quality dog chow. Many popular brands contain corn as their main ingrediant. I have never seen any wolf eating corn. Also, many dog foods have meat by-products, which are the parts of the animal you do not want to eat and are often poor quality, and be wary of dyes in foods. Did you know that dog foods are only required to be able to keep your dogs alive for 2 years? So read your labels, check to see if your 1# ingredient is meat, and add some real meat or eggs ontop of your dogs dry food sometimes!

I feed my dogs raw meat, and throw in the raw bones as well. My oldest dog can't get away from kibble, as much as I don't like it, he's going to eat the kibble that best suits the food he will eat in the wild. My middle dog really doesn't like kibble at all ever since her allergy reaction and refused the vet's food. I gave her raw meat and a raw meaty bone and never turned back. She'll eat a bit of kibble but rarely. My youngest just loves it all.

The kibble I feed them is EVO or Orijen. They don't like the kibble from Nature's Variety because it's too small but their Instinct one has pretty great ingredients and the Nature's Variety Raw Food Diet is great too. They like the Honest Kitchen to top it off.

Dog Food Analysis: Reviews of kibble

One thing to think about is how old did dogs live in the wild 5-6 yrs? If their lucky? My dogs have all been on Science Diet....I currently own a 14 yr old German Shepherd who was raised on S.D he is currently on S.D. Rx food called J/D (Joint Diet). I also have a 7 mth old GSD who is currently on S.D Lrg Breed Lamb and Rice. and a 4 yr old Pomeranian who is on S.D adult small bites. None of my dogs have had any major issues. They are all pretty healthy. The problem with reading the labels and the ingredients are that alot of dog food companies do what is called "Product Spliting" They know their consumers are looking for the #1 meat ingredient so the will take a product like Rice and split into Rice Flour, Rice Gluten so on and so forth they do the same with wheat, corn.....Now rice, corn and wheat are not bad for your dog. Its actually good as long as you don't have an allergy dog. By law dog food companys only have to test their food 6-24 mths.  By-Products are good as well thats where most of the nutrients come from. The biggest thing you want to watch for isn't so much the ingredients its the Nutrients...Proteins, Calcium, and Phosphorus are important nutrients that you need to watch. Not that the foods are lacking but have EXCESSIVE amounts. To much of these nutrients can cause health problems further down the road. To much calcium, and proteins causes stones, Urinary tract infections and crystals in your pets urine. To much phosphorus and proteins can also cause Kidney and liver disease as your pet gets older. Science Diet is one of the only dog food companys that have done this research. They have done trials with dogs for up to 6-8 yrs with amazing results. Shoot my GSD is 14 and no real problems! His athritis is being managed with their prescription food!  Well anyways I hope this helps you guys out some! I am a veterinary assistant and researching foods has been one of my biggest interests the past few yrs and I have learned so much!

well, my first dog hasn't had a health problem since we brought him home (5 months old) and he is just going to turn 3 years now. He's one healthy mutt. My second dog has had health problems due to bad breeding and she's 1 year old. The vet would give me special food but she refused and it would turn out worse, so I would give her raw food and she hasn't had anymore health problems.The dog food that I listed, they eat a really small amount. Probably a little handful because they satisfy them easily and because they eat raw more. With a low quality dog food, a dog will eat a lot! Now, you can't expect to feed the same amount with each.  Now, my third dog, she's been eating raw and she became healthy (shiny coat, gained the right amount of weight, ect) even before she was vaccinated. Real meat boosts their immune system to be stronger from anything that a vaccination will also do. Believe me, I've had problems with vaccines too. Unfortunately, I have to give them their shots because it is a law here.

Now, the reason vets tell you otherwise is because their schools are payed by the "fast food" pet foods. Those would include, Pedigree, Purina, Eukanuba, ect. Pretty much most of those famous brands. Unfortunately, most of those pet foods spend more time designing the bag than looking what inside it and what pet are eating.

The longest living dog did not eat any dog food because it wasn't invented back in those days. They used to eat real meat and even taple scraps.

Here's a couple of ingredients you should look out for. The origin of dog food was pretty much mixing the rejects together to call it pet food:

THE MEAT
Contrary to what they show you on the TV commercials, don't even think about sirloin. Your dog gets:

• The "4D" meat that didn't make the cut for the human market, which means it came from livestock that was diseased, disabled, dying, or already dead when it arrved at the slaughterhouse.

   

• The "by-products" -- a catch-all term used by the pet food industry to mean anything stripped off the carcass other than meat, i.e. beaks, feet, head, lungs, blood, and other unmentionables.
  

by-products. This is probably the worst ingredient of all. by-products can also included euthanized pets. So, the drug that's killing the dog being euthanized, is not in your dog's food bowl. You should look for the word containing meat products.

THE GRAIN.
Virtually all artificial diets are heavily based on grains and cereals. But dogs are not cows. A dog has the large stomach and short straight digestive tract required to digest meat. A cow has several small stomachs and the long winding digestive tract required to digest fibrous grain. The two are not interchangeable!

Even worse, many dogs are allergic to corn and soybean and wheat. They develop chronic digestive problems (loose stools, spitting up, gassiness) or itchy skin. You'll see them licking their feet or rubbing their face against the carpet. You might never think to associate these problems with the grain in your dog's diet, but that is often the case.

o make matters worse, the meat and byproducts are laced with the hormones fed to the livestock to make them grow faster, and the antibiotics fed to the livestock to prevent massive outbreaks of disease in their crowded living conditions. These hormones and antibiotics trickle through to your dog.

THE GREASY FAT
Many dogs gobble up their kibble, yes -- because it's sprayed with greasy fat to make it smell yummy. But we don't allow our children to eat only junk food because they love the smell or taste, do we?

THE CHEMICAL PRESERVATIVES
Preservatives are always used in artificial diets so the bags and cans last longer. That's convenient for the manufacturer, yes, who can leave it sitting in his warehouse for a long time. Convenient for the retailer who can leave it sitting on his shelf for a long time. Convenient for the owner who can dish it out for a long time.

But what is this stuff
that keeps ingredients
from spoiling?

The most common pet food preservatives are:

• Ethoxyquin -- which is actually manufactured by the giant chemical corporation Monsanto as a rubber preservative. The containers are marked POISON. The Department of Agriculture lists it as a pesticide. OSHA lists it as a hazardous chemical.

   

• BHA and BHT -- both of which cause liver and kidney dysfunction, and bladder and stomach cancer.

Most pet foods list these preservatives right on the bag or can, but even when it doesn't say so, it's usually in there, anyway.

How can this be? Because a legal loophole allows manufacturers to only list what THEY themselves put into the bag. If they buy some of their ingredients from a supplier who has already added the chemical to those ingredients...

 

The pet food company doesn't have to disclose that on the bag.

Isn't that nice?

Look and this isn't really my info, this is an info from a vet in Australia. You know what, she's right. I've had problems with all of these ingredients.

The Best Food For Your Dog: Healthy Feeding For Dogs

Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble

( look at the kibble from someone who did an anaysis on the ingridients)

Some dog food companies do use the meat products that this talks about. That is why you need to research dog food companys and contact them. Science Diet uses the same slaughter houses and only uses the organs and meat.

BHA & BHT are regulated by the FDA. THe FDA has determined that these anitoxidants are safe and effective when used in the recommended quatities fo less than 200ppm of the fat or oil content. Most foods that WE eat as well carry BHA and BHT such as Bread, Cheese, Potato chips, cake mixes ect.....

Ethoxyquin is also deemed safe by the FDA when used at recommended levels.

Corn is actually good for dogs and is easily digested when produced properly. Corn is a rich source of fatty acids, especially linoleic and linolenc for healthy skin and coat. These essential fatty acids serve important roles in the immune system and central nervous system as well. The carbohydrates supplied by corn are an important source of energy.

Soy products are one of the worlds oldest and most widely used sources of high quality protein. Unlike other common protein sources such as meat, fish, poultry or milk.

Soy products have all of these healthy characteristics:

*High in Vitamins and folic acid
*Concentrated source of fatty acids
*Good Source of Fiber
*Good DIgestibility
*LESS allergenic for dogs than other protein sources such as meat and dairy products.
*Contains key anitoxidants.

Soy Products also contain isoflavones (Antioxidants) which researchers believe to be a potential weapon in the fight against cancer.

For more info about pet food:

Pet Food Labels by the FDA.Gov

This one says it more clearly what the FDA posted.

The Dog Food Project - Dog Food Label Information 101

This one tells you which to avoid:

The Dog Food Project - Ingredients to avoid

Reviews on RateItAll for dog food from other users

And I'm done pretty much discussing when people can see for themselves. Each dog is different so let them eat what nature intended them to eat. No matter how long a dog has been around, their natural instinct will never change.

BHT and BHA are KNOWN to cause CANCER in dogs and humans.  They should NEVER be in the food you give your dog to sustain their life.  Especially when there are much better more natural preservatives.  Dogs shouldn't eat BHA or BHT and neither should humans.

Ethoxyquin is what they put in rubber tires to keep them supple.  Would you really give that to your dog?  Lots of things are regulated by the government, that doesn't make them edible.

Corn is NOT good for dogs, it causes them to have lots of gas and digestive upset.  In bigger dogs it can cause them to bloat and DIE.  What do you see in the toilet the day after YOU eat corn?  Do you think you are digesting it?  Rice is a much better carb for dogs than corn.  Corn is cheap filler, thats why they use it.

Soy causes alot of allergies for dogs - so does wheat.  That is why the more expensive foods do NOT contain these things.  They specifically advertise "no wheat no corn no soy"

Check out the whole dog journal.  They do a top ten list every year of the BEST foods for your dog.

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/

Nothing is better for dogs than good old fashioned human grade food.  If I wouldn't eat it, my dogs aren't gonna either.

Just my two cents worth.

7dogs

BTW- If you read the label on Science Diet Adult LIGHT formula, you will see for yourself that there is NO MEAT in it.  It DOES however list soybean hulls as an ingredient.  How is that nutritional?  It is like cardboard. 
The saddest thing about this particular formula is that it is FULL of crappy ingredients and you pay just as much for it as a good food would cost you.  They sell it simply because of the name.

Another interesting point is that the Hill's company (makers of Science Diet) write ALL the nutrition protocol for vets in vet school, which by the way is about a day and a half of classes.  They really don't teach all that much about nutrition in vet school but what they do teach comes right from this company.  Gee, I wonder which food vets will reccommend and why???

7dogs

Out a girl 7!

Let's not forget the recalls. Look, this is how I say it, "a good dog food is one that even a human can eat." Even 7 said it. I remember hearing once of a Ottowa woman eating her dog food after dog didn't eat it and she ended up getting sick. The dog food was part of Menu Foods, what did she expect? Good dog food? I think not.

Reviews on RateItAll for dog food from other users

pretty much give you an example of how Science Diet is rated. Pretty low ratings.

and

Dog Food Analysis: Reviews of kibble

rated as a 1 star!

I know we are in a economic crisis but we shouldn't stoop to a low level to feed our dogs junk. In the long run, less money spent on their health. 7 is right. Vets are not not nutrionists. They ar better at spaying/neutering, but not food. Like I had said above, the "fast food" companies pay for their school so obviously they are going to tell them that their food is the best.

Just wanted to put another work in but not going to get into nutrition again since I am exhauseted from work and coming down with something :(  If Science Diet is such a horrible food and I don't supplement my dogs how did my Male GSD get to be 14 and still very healthy, and never had any health issues? Actually I'm getting read to put him under for a dental in January, Just did Bloodwork last week which looks wonderful. My 7 mth is doing well on it as well. All my dogs have always done well with S.D and our clients are happy with it too!!! Just wanted to throw that in there! Now its time for Nyquil and bed!

I'll leave off with this: don't punish the dog. Feed the dog what they were meant to eat. Why must we insist on pushing them with something that is totally off their nature. It's as bad as forcing a dog to be vegan or a vegetarian, as much as the idea may sound cute and fuzzy.

I'll add this: if by-products and all that junk were so good, then why so many of pet foods that were recalled have this as their ingridients, (inlcuding Science Diet who had a recall). There's been far more recalls on this than from raw food and those who use meat products instead. Yeah, go tell the owners of these pets who were affected by the recalls that there was nothing wrong with the food and that probably their pet didn't eat enough of it, or probably swallowed a toy. See how they take it. People, do your research and decide for yourself.

A dog's nose does not lie. For them this saying goes: If you can smell it, it must be true. Any dog will chose real meat (even cooked) than any dry food you throw. Real meat has much more value for them than something made up to, supposely, meet their needs. Mother Nature ain't no fool. She knows what animals really need and no human can beat that.

Now I'm out.

I feed my dog red meat every now and then. IDk, everyone says that feeding your dog raw meat makes then mean and gun powder does the same thing but then again, why would you feed your dog gun powder?!!

No, that's not true. Raw meat=aggression. There was a study done a while back to see if it was true but they couldn't find a connection.

My dogs can eat raw meat from the same bowl (although they do have their own bowl) and even right next to each other. They even like sharing the raw bones too. I know. How? Tha's because  I always tought them that food aggression was not allowed. They don't mind having to share food and have me take the food away either.

Aggression in dogs comes from genetics, training and socialization, or lack thereof. Dogs' primal instinct is to hunt and chase prey, no matter what they are fed.

Myths About Raw: Does raw meat make dogs aggressive?

Pet Food Report - Top 10 Lies

I have never heard/witnessed that real meat leads to aggression. It even SOUNDS like "an old wives tale"! So if we eat beef carpaccio, there's going to be violence? BOL

We tried the BARF diet (it really does make the most sense), it was not right for our pack/feeding routine. I found a holistic, fresh food that works great for us.

The AusSiebelts (& Addison & Mizner, foster pups) get green beans (fresh, steamed), baby carrots, cooked sweet potato & the famous chicken liver brownies I make, as a treat (recipe in my blog).

By-products as a wholesome ingredient? Sure ~ if you think of beaks, feet, and anything leftover as good for your pet (NOT!!)  

Am new here hello!

IMHO the best dog food is the food they thrive on. If they do well on a supermarket brand that many people scoff at, its up to you as long as they're happy and healthy. I feed my dog Addiction which I feel is an excellent quality food. She eats their brushtail canned plus homecooked food, and we recently bought her the dry venison grain-free to try. She loves it and is so healthy I really can't complain!

We have had our 11 month old lab on a raw diet since the day we brought him home and for good reason-good health. Commercial pet food has been around since the 1950's and persuasive ads and pretty labels DO NOT=good health. If you care about your animals DO YOUR HOMEWORK people! Remember the pet food recalls not so long ago?? This is due to co-packing. One or two companies make up the sludge that goes into those pretty, colorful bags for numerous brands and it matters none how much you pay...it's all the same fast food. Furthermore these packers are NOT overseen by any gov. body. I just watched another documentary put together by one of the smarter vets who threw together a concoction of old leather boots, motor oil, slaughter house floor refuse not fit for human consumption, had it analysed, and it passed as nutrionally sound for companion animals. Something to think about!!! Be smart for your animals sake.There is no shortage of information out there. There is NO substitute for good healthy eating like naturally raw. Dogs and cats are carnivores- please treat them as such. They are our best friends after all and they deserve it.

PS Feeding raw DOES NOT = aggression or bloodlust. This is an old wives tale.

We feed a really high grade kibble with organic chicken as the main ingredient and also offer cooked meat at our mealtimes, plus veggies too of course. My guys love raw green beans. But I don't give raw meat, just think it's not that safe with all the garbage food animals are fed.

Again do the research....

I know I never really believed it. I live in redneck country where they do just about anything to make their animals mean.

I just wish dog food was healthy and cheap. Wal-Mart's name brand dog food is made up of 90% paper or that's what I've heard.

I see the age old debate continues on, this is a good thing as everything pointed out here is informative and positive. In a nutshell I have come to these conclusions after much research into foods to fit my budget and time.

AAFCO means nothing, as pointed out above the requirements to be certified are minimum. The dog can have all it's hair falling out and be immobile, as long as he's breathing and the company pays on time it gets the stamp.

The vets may be endorsing a certain food, before you buy set the bag up on the counter and ask about the ingredients you have never heard of before and see if you like their answer.

The FDA is a bureaucratic nightmare, it almost seems like they approve everything, until it kills a couple people then there are recalls and legal repercussions.

I don't think that corn and other grains really hurt a dog, unless they have allergies like Buddy, on the other hand it doesn't help them much with their nutritional needs. Orbit loves corn, I even taught him to eat it off the cob but the @#$% afterward aren't worth it.

The best thing we can do is research and it doesn't mean go to one web site or another, go to all of them. It may take a couple of days but in the end you will find consistancies about a brand or a certain company that you can work with to fit your budget and time requirements.

I'd love to be able to feed my dogs a home cooked meal every night but hell I don't even get that and it would be tough money wise so they get to eat EVO and a couple of homecooked meals here and there. Their bloodwork has been steller. Not to promote one food over another but I can read and tell you what everything is on the ingredient list on this food and thats rare for the labels I see on most bagged food.

To be fair a friend of mine has a hound dog thats 17 and all he has eaten his whole life has been ole'roy. I think genetics play a important part in longevity along with plenty of water intake to purge bad stuff out.

Read, read and read.... lots of good info out there

Fortunately in my area raw food retailers are growing in popularity and I'm sure in the future with the word spreading on the benefits of raw we will see more of them. It's still funny to me how feeding raw seems to be shocking to people when its so natural and really commercial food has only been around for 50 or so years. People seem to have lost their ability to use common sense!  And I guess honestly we ourselves trusted the vet endorsed pretty bags.We buy from Mountain Dog Food now and Reuban is growing like a weed and very healthy. Our first vet tried to discourage us really strongly twice so we just changed vets. She was using scare tactics like possible salmonella poisoning for all members of our family....HELLO common sense goes along way...Clean surfaces duh.

Anyway we did have to try a few different ways of combining vegg. to his MDF (just as our own supplement) as he had itchy red flare ups on his belly and chewed on his paws and legs from time to time (not good to combine alot of veggies at once so we learned) and I suspected something was causing a yeast infection in the gut. Alot of the sweeter veggies like carrots and grains add to the problem so we discovered. So as different websites and books advised it could be a long process for the yeast to make it's way from the build up in the gut and lastly exit through the skin. At the same time our new vet said he sees cases of the itchies increase dramatically in the fall of the year due to some sort of pollen. Needless to say it was a long haul but he is doing fine, his skin has gone back to normal and his fuzzy belly hair has grown back. Sometimes it can be hard know exactly what factors you're dealing with with sensitive dogs especially when even the new vet doesn't really comment alot on nutrition. I found out after alot of research that vets generally do not cover a whole lot on nutrition in their education but rather treating symptoms of disease- not the cause.

e

We sure miss Newton our Rottie but know he's in a better place now. As for Reuban he will have the best nutrition we can give him. It's all good!

I don't have any expertise at all on this subject, but I have been learning a lot following this thread.

I just wanted to say thank you all and congratulate you on an information filled thread with none of the petty sniping that we have seen so many other places.

This is what MDS is all about.

Thank you all

Jim, SUE, and CODIE JOE

I was feeding my dog cheap dog food when I first got him witch I actually found he had an allergy to the chicken so I spent weeks agganizing over what food to put him on. Now he eats Blue Buffalo and he also gets cooked meat (he doesnt like raw) and eggs everynight. He has more energy and is easier to handle, but the again so are children when they have full bellys and a good nights sleep.

Yeah I guess it was easier with Reuban because we got him on the raw right from the get-go. A friend of ours switched his dog Buddy at 2yrs and he took to it easilly.He has noticed a huge change in energy and especially Buddy's coat-softer and shinier.

Some dogs are more apprehensive I guess. The books say make a slow change by subbing only one meal a day at first and mixing it with kibble at first. (Barf diet) Then there's the strictly raw meaty bones diet, also the book by Tom Lonsdale -Raw Meaty Bones. Rube now gets chicken backs and necks whole and loves it. I was a little nervous to feed them at first but the bones are soft when they're raw of course so I've gotten over my fear of choking.

After reading "Foods pets die for" by Ann N. Martin we would never feed kibble again. Maybe there are some out there that are better but we're so much more at ease knowing exactly what he's eating!

Happy Tails!