When me and my dog are at home he will listen to me perfectly but when we go to the lake he wont come when called. He wont bring the ball back to me i’ll literally have to chase him down to get it.

 My friends tell me he’s to old to be trained but he’s only 1yr 6mths. One of my friends has a great black lab named Jade. She’s perfect but he hits her and i dont wanna make my dog scared of me but thats what he says i have to do to get control. is there anyother way??

i can suggest reading the book Marley and Me, its about a yellow lab and his owner, and he goes into how he trained marley.  Marley was really a ornary pup.

I am a great fan of a book called “The Loved Dog” , a dog training book by Tamar Geller. While Marley and Me is a great read, he didn’t have much success training Marley. Please enroll your dog in a training class, hire a trainer, and/or read a book on training – 18 months in NOT to old to be trained and will give you dog a happier and healthier life.

I’ve heard that labs are one of the few breeds that respond to negative reinforcement. I would only use it as a last resort. Our puppy kept jumping up on the couch and we tried telling her no and then praising her when she sat on the floor, but she kept it up for quite awhile. The last time she did it she got a light swat, and a firm “NO!”. Hasn’t happend since.

Had the same problem with her wanting to run off when we let her free from her lead. We bought a thin fifty foot rope and took her out to a field and worked with her buy “reeling” her in when we called her and then praising her profusely.

How about an obedience class?  Try looking one up through your local kennel club

Long-Winded Post:

Perhaps your Lab is listening – you’re just not expressing yourself in a manner he’s understanding. 

I don’t have a huge amount of experience with labs but I’m certain that the dog that’s one of the most popular service dog breeds isn’t one that requires negative reinforcement to work.  And there’s no such thing as “too old to train”...it just takes more work.  Your dog has already told you playing with you makes him happy – you just have to reinforce that when he’s distracted.

Note that positive reinforcement doesn’t always mean “Plus” rewards.  What it really means is you’re rewarding ONLY and EXACTLY when you get the desired behaviour.  It is the hardest training method to develop and takes the longest path, both for the trainer and the dog.  It doesn’t mean you can’t say “no” – dogs do understand body language and voice inflection and can understand when you’re not happy.  If a dog is up on the couch, for whatever reason, and you’ve decided the dog should not be on the couch, its perfectly acceptable to say “no” and “off” – just don’t get aggravated.  You also don’t directly reward the dog for getting off the couch after telling them off – that will reinforce the “if I’m up on the couch and he says “off”, and I get off, i get a treat”.  Instead you have to discover a method to reward them for staying on the floor – or more to the point, for not getting on the couch (encouraging them to be at your feet instead of at your elbow). 

You’ve mentioned your dog already has the skills/behaviours you want and that the mis-behaviour is only done when the venue changes.  So back the bus up a couple blocks and work with having the dog stay with you all the time rather than doing a retrieval.  You start yourself down a positive reinforcement path (I use clicker training/lure/reward training) – sometimes its easier to get instructions from professional trainers and then apply the lessons.  Another good basis is obedience – for anyone who’s seen dogs in the obedience trials,you know what I mean – scarey to see ten dogs lined up in a down-stay and no one looking at them…kinda creepy actually.  Canine Good Citizen is also a good method – if someone is offering CGC in your area, that’s a good start also.  Those kind of classes encourage the dog to pay attention to you; their reward is you, not a pair of ducks splashing at the water’s edge.

With a bit of tongue-in-cheek, its “simply” a matter of refocusing the dog on you – it just takes a bit of work and a lot of time.

as for your friend’s outlook – it sounds very antiquated (as in “rub the dog’s nose in it to let them know they did wrong”) and rubs against all dog psychology (and you have every reason not to employ that method of training and no good reason to follow it).  I’m not saying pushing a dog off the couch is always bad, as long as its NOT vindictive (needs to be a neutral behaviour).   I give Reiley a “git-on-up-there-hawh” smack on his butt when he’s trying to evade going inside, but that’s ALSO part of our Game. 

What I’m saying is Fear/Hurt is the beginning of flight/fight – it may take a series of escalations to bring it into full growth, but there is no justifiable reason to use any force on any dog that is not already in full-blown arousal.  I would agree that some dogs may respond to a force – but that same response can be obtained in other methods – it just takes a lot longer and is more work.  If a dog is fully aroused (fighting), that’s about the only time where hitting a dog would even begin to not register as a negative act in the dog’s brain, simply because the dog is already over-stimulated and probably won’t recognize human input - and you’re taking your limbs and life into harms way doing it. 

Dog psyche is easily broken; the fastest way there is hitting them.  Your friend needs to see the backside of animal control to see the broken animals – not necessarily physically broken but certainly spiritually.   Some never recover – some recover superficially and some hide it better than others.   Force should never be exerted except in extremis (as in seperating fighting dogs, where the seperator is likely to be injured too). 

Although we’d like to think otherwise, dogs are not deliberate individuals who are doing things just to be obtuse – if they aren’t getting what you’re asking them to do, its because you’ve not been clear in your instructions, and no amount of physical force will make them understand it any better. 

I know a dog that has learned , in order for her to be happy (which is EVERY dog’s goal – they just want to be happy – humans have attached the “equates to” factors like loves her bone/food/owner), she must approach the human on her back, peeing submissively.  She learned from her previous owner , who yelled at the dog when things didn’t go as planned; the owner also took the popularized “throw the dog on its back” method she learned from a icon trainer.  Unfortunately, she didn’t actually show the dog anything the dog would understand and so the dog’s behaviours were never corrected and the dog learned that the only attention she could get (her happiness is being around her owner, even if its not a happy life) would be to approach her owner and then roll over onto her back and pee herself (which only made the owner angrier).  We’re still working with the new owner and the dog is started to realize that its not necessary to be belly-up to the world to be happy – should be noted, her roll-over belly routine is ONLY around humans.  Around other dogs, she’s not submissive any more than she feels she needs to be. 

Dogs don’t see right and wrong the way humans do and they certainly don’t speak Human or Ape.  As you’re chasing after him as he’s playing (fetch) at the lake, he’s observing you as part of his new game, and you’re now part of the game, oh happy dog!  Dogs don’t do things to please you as much as they do to please themselves and if you’re chasing after him yelling, what do you imagine he hears?  Think of it this way – ever seen a pack of dogs running around in circles barking up a storm?  They’re feeding of each other’s energy and commotion.  You never see a dog chasing after nothing at all, and when the dog loses that play-focus, they calm down (and generally return to a more docile behaviour like sniffing).  That’s when they remember “hey, lookit, Momma’s ober der, I wunner if she’s got some skritches fur me?”.  So the hardest part is when you get there, to keep him focused on you instead of  new surroundings.  As he’s already demonstrated that ability, its a matter of reinforcement.  How the two of you learn to share that reinforcement activity is up to you. 

Small tidbit – we’ve got a dog going through HW treatment – she’s met with her new prospective owners but until the end of the month, she stays with us.  The new Hudad was really taken with her because she’s small and cute, even for a sheltie.  However, he was miffed after her first nibble of cheese from his hands that she didn’t return to him every time he called; every call she didn’t listen to was progressively louder and louder and louder.  She wasn’t listening to him – he wasn’t communicating with her, so it was just like noise in the background.  What she was doing was listening to her new HuMom who was feeding her treats (appropriate behaviour for the first visit).  After about thirty minutes, Shae was responsive to anyone who had food in their hand, but still would not come when he called AT her.  Obviously a work-in-progress, but that’s what its about. 

It takes time to get the behaviour you want, it takes work and most of all, it takes clear communication that both of you understand – and dogs don’t speak human. Baby-steps – some dogs learn faster than others but they all learn in small sequences, and if you skip over something, usually, the dog is not going to intuitively figure out what is missing (there are exceptions).

dwain

Well, he’s not too old, I’ll tell you that.

You need to work on “recall”.Do you have a fenced in yard?If not, a 16’ lead will do. WORK AND WORK AND WORK on the command “come”.What I did with Jackson is when he get’s interested in something I’ll say Jackson come,and he knows it. If he’s REALLY into it, I use either “nuh uh!” and/or clap” just to get his attention, and then “Jackson, come”. Remember, praise is a big part in it,too.Also, do not scold the dog when he/she comes back to you…you have to make the coming back an enjoyable thing.The dog does not think the running away part was bad if you scold him/her,it’s the coming back part.To me, training is not done in sessions, training is happening every minute that you’re with your dog.Even if you’re going on a walk,stop for a minute, get your dog to come,sit and stay until you tell him/her to proceed.I did this with Jackson today at the park,and so now he knows the same rules apply at the park,too.Remember,labs are sporting dogs—highly intelligent.You should really have no problems, just a lot of patience, kind words, and treats!

hope this helps

Emily

I have a 3 yr old Choc Lab and a 2 month old black lab. I can tell you that they are very stubborn headed sometimes but i can also tell you they DO NOT like abusive training or negative reinforcement. I would suggest buying some training treats (no dog is too old to train) labs love to learn all the time. You should use short words like “sit” “Come, (your dogs name) ”, lay. Make sure there are no other distractions around. It takes time an patience when training. Work with your dog 15-20 mins a day/1 to 2 commands at a time. Good luck with training. You can add me as a pal if you have any more questions. OH another thing, when calling your dog, you might try squatting down to eye level keeping contact with him/her.

I agree with many of you that no do is too old to train.  It takes time and the ability to see and use everyday things to help train the dog.  As well as precise and direct instructions for the dog.  CONSISTANCY is a good key.  I trained a Pyr (considered a no obediance type dog) who was 6 years old when i rescued her and 7 when we did classes.  She passes at the head of her class of 20 dogs.  At first i wasn’t sure it was going to work, but with love and and rewards (i only do hug and kiss rewards) she came around.  My son who was 3 was taught to handle her and walked her.  Prior to coming to us she was abused and left tied on a chain or in a pen in deplorabel conditions..she weighed 67lbs and was 32 in.  So my advice is to work with your dog and take every opportunity you have.  One of my favorite ones is when they are lying down as you walk past them tell them down…and if they stay just like they were, reward them.  They will equate the word with the action over time.  And the recall that someone spoke of is a SUPER idea…a nice 14ft lead is great.  Had to work like that with my hubbys dobie.  Good Luck!  I know you can do it!