I'm interested in other's experiences with this training method. I was never interested in it because, quite frankly, it seemed stupid to reward Astrid for a bunch of random behaviors she might do by accident. At her class yesterday, I was turned into a believer. Not a 'hard core' nothing but shaping believer, but a believer, nonetheless.

Here's a little background. We started a CGC class six weeks ago. Instructor Sarah said Astrid was ready to take the test then, but Astrid's mom does better with 'specific' things to work on with her, so we kept going to class and actually signed up for another 6 weeks. The CGC test and therapy dog  test are going to be scheduled for the near future. As classes go, it has dwindled down to only Astrid right now and we are just really mixing it up with Rally O stuff and yesterday, we started a little with the 'shaping' method'. Astrid actually learned to bow in 20 minutes using shaping. Watching her with the instructor, I could see the thinking process going on which is something I never expected.

I'm not looking to do hardcore obedience work with Astrid. I just want a well behaved, fun dog that can provide her mom with a social life through attending classes and maybe even some Rally O participation. Astrid responds really well to spoken commands and has responded to the 'lure' method of training. Is there anyone that combines several methods in their training? I guess I'm worried about turning Astrid into a psychological mess by combining methods. Anyone out there with good or bad experiences using the 'combo' method?

I did this with Sierra.  She would "Bow" or "Stretch forward" and  when I would ask her if she wanted a cookie or a greenie or something of that nature, so I started in with "Please", and now everytime I ask her if she wants a cookie, she "bows please" to me and if I ask her again, she goes all the way down and puts her head down and that is "pretty please".  And I always finish with "You have such good manners"..

I honestly don't think we humans give dogs the credit they deserve sometimes. 

That's cool. Your response 'you have such good manners' replaces the sound of the clicker that I'm using. Did you teach Sierra other 'tricks' using a lure that she would just follow with her nose and does she ever show any confusion over the two methods? I tried teaching Astrid the bow using a treat, but she never got it. She DID get it rather quickly with this shaping method like we've both have success with. 

This is really interesting to me. I don't pour over training articles but I have read many, and mostly I've read about using the 'lure' method. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone that thinks the 'shaping behaviors' is stupid, like I did in the beginning. Why didn't it work? I'd ESPECIALLY like to hear from those that it has worked for!

I'm not one to do something just because someone said to, but I think we can learn what to watch for from one another's experiences.

I train using the lure method.  It is 180 degrees different from the old way I used to train using "Monks of New Skete" jerk them off their feet when they disobey method.

I have a free lesson that will show basics of lure:  www.painlessdogtraining.com

For SAR dogs and Versucht [German SAR] you cannot use choke methods, harsh methods, anything but reward methods.

When I want to teach my GSD Luka a new trick, I just decide what I want her to do, then use a lure to pull the behavior and reward with the words GOOD [whatever I want the trick named].  Like crawl.  I taught her to respond to "crawl" by luring her in a down forward with my hand on her shoulder and when she crawled forward, I said "Good Crawl" and gave the treat.

Sit is similar, hold the treat in your hand, lift over nose to between ears and when the dog's butt hits the floor, "Good Sit" and reward.

The assumption with clickers is that the closer to the targeted activity you click, the better... funny enough, dogs learn complex and coordinated behaviors without reward to hunt (watch the BBC Planet Earth Series and watch the Wild dogs of Africa hunt... like a precision formation).  Using a food lure or a toy lure and getting a reward-response connection for the dog will make training VERY easy.

Annie

Trainer in Germany

www.painlessdogtraining.com

my husband taught our dogs by saying thank you when they did what they were being trained to do, and now when we ask them to do something and we don't have to tell them twice we say thank you and they know that they did somethig rite.  he has taught them how to dance, lay down, sit, and roll over.  he was teaching them how to shake but he is in dog training school now.  but when he gets a chance i know he will accomplish that with them.