I wish that this was not an available profile option.

In my opinion, and I realize that it is only my opinion, being able to advertise one's desire to be a backyard breeder is a very bad thing.  No reputable breeder is going to seek a breeding partner on MDS - they have much better ways to find a mate.  And if, by some miracle, a reputable breeder did want to find a mate here, they could list their pedigree in their profile and note that they are a reputable breeder.

But simply having the "Want a Mate to Breed" option on a profile is really the same as saying "I want to be a backyard breeder and create unwanted puppies that somebody else will have to put to sleep at a shelter."

It doesn't seem to me, and I know that I'm not anybody important or in a position of authority, that this is the purpose of MDS.

Could this option be removed so that MDS is not a place to promote backyard breeding?

Totally see your point and agree one hundred percent however I have to admit that I am a little glad that this tag exists as it helps me identify who is like minded and who isn't.  It points out like you said, I want to make more.  That's it, not better, just more. I have a purebred, it's my "right" to breed.  I like the tag because it very obviously points out these people and they can either be taught, and walk away a smarter person on the right side of the fence or stay where they are, arrogant and creating more puppies that will "get too big" or "shed and drool too much" and end up somone else's problem, after all what inexperienced breeder is going to offer a lifetime home to the pups they produce? 

That's right, they dont. 

BYB will exist whether this tag exists or not.  Personally, I like being able to discern who these people are.

Good point, I hadn't thought of it that way.

Hmm another good topic.  I do have that tag on my profile but not to get a mate from MDS but to say that one day if possible Harlee might be able to be bred.  I would not breed her until the right tests are done  and she has been looked at from someone "like" a judge but I am looking at my options and no not online but it is the truth.  No I do not intend to be a BYB but I do want to breed her one time to the right male and with the right credentials.  I think that goes to that  assuming part that I am alwys talking about. I believe in the truth and thats why I put it on there,  just for clarification 

What is the point of breeding her once to the "right male" (whatever YOUR opinion of the right male is)?  If you are not commited to showing and improving the breed then you ARE a BYB.  The very definition of a BYB is a pet owner who breeds their own dog, someone whos not "into" showing or competing and only wants to breed because they think their dog needs to have one litter, needs to be a mom or they only want "one litter" - personally I have heard it all THOUSANDS of times.  Good breeders are striving to IMPROVE the breed, not just make more puppies.  I still think you don't see this.  When people say, "she has the right to one litter" or "I just want her to be a Mom" those are SELFISH reasons to breed your dog.

You have not said, (AN EXAMPLE NOW--I HAVEN'T SEEN HARLEE) "Harlee Ann has a nice headpiece with sound rear angulation, a nice front and good coat pattern" "Her tail set is too high and her topline is a little off, but we are looking for a male with a good topline and tail set"  "Maybe a male with a little more substance and nice dark eyes."  They also look for a mate that has been evaluated by an experienced judge since the dog show judge has seen more of your breed than you ever will, and they know a good example of a breed from a poor one.  By the way, you do NOT have to crop to show,  read the breed standard...

These are example of what a reputable breeder MIGHT say, the things that they look for are traits to improve the breed, the puppies produced, credentials are only part of it.  MOST PETS should not be bred, even ones who come from champion parents and that option should NOT be left to the pet owner, that is where the limited registration comes into play.  Harlee's breeders shouldve been a little more selective in which dogs they send out into the world with full registration as well as the only people who should get FULL registration are the people who prove themselves and their dogs.

Another thing, although the AKC is the most respected of the registering bodies, it is NOT an indication of quality.  Unless you are in Canada and are referring to the Canadian Kennel Club, the CKC (continental kennel club) is even less notable.  The really important thing here is that NO "PAPERS" are a reason to justify breeding your dog, they are just like the registration papers your car has,  you can register a corvette or a chevette and the papers are the same. A dog with "papers" is only as good as his pedigree.  Another thing, looking at pedigrees you have to know what you are looking at.  And in Danes, it is NOT acceptable to have blues and harls in the same litter, so by breeding Harlee Ann you are ALREADY producing dogs that have a muddled pedigree, whether or not she wants to be a Mom is irrelevant, you have the power to either make more puppies with a muddled pedigree or spay her and enjoy her as a hormone free pet and KNOW that you did the right thing by the BREED, you did the right thing for future great danes.  No REPUTABLE breeder is going to stud to your dog anyway, she has a MIXED COLOR pedigree, this is something that you DO NOT want to pass on again, they will only produce more mismarked puppies for generations to come.

Also, just because a puppy has two champion parents, is NOT a reason to breed your dog.  You have to prove that your dog actually inherited those genes, that there is a champion inside them.  Guess how you do that?  That's right, at a conformation dog show.  Where a judge (NOT someone "like" a judge-who would that be anyway?) goes over your dog and tells you what the faults and strengths are. 

Posting "want a mate to breed" on a PUPPY'S profile for whatever reason makes it seem like you are in a hurry to breed her.  It also, like stated above puts out preconceived notion about your intentions.  You said you did your research but all I hear are selfish reasons, I bet if you asked Harlee she would rather be a healthy pet and live a long life than a Mom anyday...

Eine comes from a color pure pedigree and has many champions in her pedigree as well.  She has been shown in four shows and won points in two of them as well as a reserve.  That is 3 out of 4.  Good start don't you think?  I also have a mentor that works with us that has been breeding and showing home bred CHAMPION danes for over 35 years.  How many home bred champions does Harlee's breeder have?  That she has produced and then shown to finishing their championship?  That would be a real good place to start, and I would LOVE to see pictures.  If you want to breed, you have to start with quality.

Also, like I said above, I have not seen Harlee in person and I am NOT a judge, but I have been to enough dog shows, and watched enough danes in the ring to know what is out there for quality.  Why don't you want to show her?  What are you afraid of?  It is really besides the point since her pedigree will ONLY make more mismarks, as it is muddled with mixed colors.  I thought you said you read and understood the Great Dane Club of America's breeder's code of ethics?  It clearly states that color families should be adhered to.  If you go against the code of ethics, what kind of breeder does that make you?

I am going to reply to your last 2 post to me 7 and I hope that by the end of my reply that you will treat me and Harlee with a bit more respect and dignity!!! Also be advised that I removed the tag "wanting a mate" because I can say after thinking about it that it does sound wrong for me to put that on the internet no matter what my feelings about it were and after you making it sound like I walk her around with a sign around her neck that says "IN SEASON, PLEASE MOUNT ME" give me a break shes 7 months old but as I said I removed it so it didn't sound like I was pimping her out to just any dog. 

My wanting to breed her at least once has nothing to do with her having the right to have at least one litter or to just be a mom 1 time so please do not insinuate what you dont know!  I am not the neglegent person that you make me and others out to be on this site and I highly resent the fact that you make me feel this way.  When I said a person "LIKE" a judge I was meaning someone like you but with a bit more cooth about them as I am hoping he/she will not demean or judge me in any way for looking at Harlee's options.  My opinion on a Male DOES NOT matter but that of someone who knows much more than you or I do about the breed does, for all you or I know after talking and having he/she examining Harlee she may be getting spayed so please do not accuse me of anything when you have no idea of my intentions at this time. As for you insinuating that I should have not been allowed to have Harlee I RESENT THAT AS WELL you had no right what so ever to even suggest such a thing!!  I was given Full registration because I could prove that I am responsible as well as all of my other pets (both purebred and mutts) have been spayed or nuetered with exceptional health care and husbandry! and to suggest otherwise is an outrage to me.  Harlee's breeder is a goodstanding member in the GDCA, GDC of Clevland GDC of Western Pennsylvania and Heart of Ohio Gdc, They have been showing home bred danes for 12 years and have 2 champs out of the 9 they have at this time I will scan in the pics this week so you can see them. I had to sign and have a notary stamp & signature that I would have her examined by a professional in the breed as well as having the hips confirmed and blood work done before even thinking about breeding her, if just one of these exams is anything but perfect I am to have her spayed these things are what I am talking about when I say "OPTIONS". And if it ever came about that I couldnt care for Harlee anylonger they want her back and I signed a paper for that as well.  you campared papers to cars I signed more for her than I did for my car.

your sentence about having the tag means that I am saying that I want to be a BYB to create pups that are basically going to end up in the dump because some jerk will either have them euthanised or give it to the shelter is totally untrue I would never want or say anything like that and the comment was totally uncalled for please do not put words in my mouth or thoughts in my head that are not there you are not my "judge" so quit trying to be! I have one judge and I am in good standing with him thank you. 

You are right you are not a person of importance or authority and I am sure that it is not the purpose of MDS to promote BYB but it is a place for humans and dogs to come and get to know more about other humans and dogs and their breeds (PURE OR NOT) and as a species, it is also a place for education on different topics (this being one of them) and learning from expierences of others as well as of our own.  It is not a place to be judged and miss treated by someone who acts as if they do everything right in life from breeding to showing and rescue while everyone else does it wrong.  ITS A PLACE FOR HUMANS AND THEIR PET TO BE TREATED WITH DIGNITY RESPECT AND NOTHING LESS. 

As far as Colors go Harlee is not a FREAK SHOW she is a harlequin a recognized color pattern of the GDCA, AKC, CKC as well as a few more her sire was black and her mother was a harlequin her grandparents were black and black from harlequin her great grandparents were both harlequins, and will be doing more and more research for the rest of the pedigree. I know what colors I can and can not breed her with IF I CAN EVEN BREED HER.  If I need to prove myself well then here that goes.  According to the acceptable color charts for breeding I could breed Harlee with a black from a black only or a harlequin or a black from a harlequin, I know enugh that I cant breed her with a merle (not recognized) I know about birth defects deafness blindness club foot turned extremities etc. I also know what can happen during the pregnacy and the whelping process I am a VET TECH and have been in on many c-sections, pyometra surgery, I have seen pups born dead without limbs or with their insides on the outsides of the abdomanal cavity or without heads or no heart.  SHALL I GO ON?   I know that it is very hard work I get it I am not a child I am 40 years old and not as dumb as you may think. ps I AM THE MOST UNSELFISH PERSON YOU WILL EVER COME ACROSS THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

now onto the second post 

Thats wonderful that you show Eine and that she does so well I am happy for the both of you! the reason I dont want to show has nothing about me being afraid it has to do with me being an ill person that cannot do the traveling and has to stay close to home, again you do not know me! I use to show my min pin and she did pretty good so no this is not my first rodeo so to speak, (I used to show quarter horses as well) I never bred her and yes I had her spayed when I had to quit showing ALL animals.  I am however very active with 4-h as a way to get that out of my system so to speak becuase everything is local. By the way since you have never seen Harlee why would you say she is mismarked since when reading the color standards of the harlequin she is colored fine with a very shiny coat.    Again I have read and understand the code of eithics and I was wishing that I could become a member of one of the Great Dane Clubs but like when I was a member of the MPCA there is traveling and alot of charitable and fundraising events that I am unable to go to at this time.

I can agree with you one a couple things one being that we will probably never see eye to eye on eveything but if you would give me half a chance you would see that I am a person of good morals and values and not some bum that wants $$ Heck I am just as broke as the next person and live and work just for my pets and bills.  The second being as we both want the best for all the wanted and unwanted animals out there and we are both very passionate about what we do. I would never judge you for being passionate about your beliefs PLEASE DO NOT judge me.

I have only one request when speaking to me (typing or whatever) please refrain from the accusations and the insinuations and please quit being so harsh with me I will unblock you from my page and I want to give this another shot but I will not put up with being put down in any way we could probably learn from each other and after all isnt that what this life is all about as well as this website?

RESPECTFULLY,

Tammy    

Hi Tammy,

I really would like you to re read my post.  I NEVER said you shouldn't have had Harlee, I also said she is a beautiful pet.  I have never insulted her or you and I am sorry you got that out of my post.   What I DID say was that she should have been placed on limited registration, you should have had to show her to earn full registration and prove that your motives are in the right place, the breeder can always overturn limited.  Either that or you should have been mandated by your contract to show her in order to breed her, that is how we prove breeding worth in the world of purebred dogs,

also, I never said anything bad about mutts, we were just talking about danes.  Not sure why the bold print about mixed breed dogs, that wasn't even in our conversation.

Harlee is NOT a freak show but if you breed her and there really were blue puppies (not blue merle but blue like Eine) then she does have a mixed color pedigree and will throw mismarks,  especially if she was the ONLY harl.

Please dont take offense, I can tell by your post that you are furiously trying to defend your position to breed Harlee, and i respect you for trying to make the most educated decision you can, but all I am asking is that you do right by the breed as a whole.  I am very glad that you are waiting the full two years to have her evaluated and hopefully you will change your mind about having a real great dane judge go over her, not your breeder and not you.  Someone who knows great danes like no other.  Someone who is objective. 

You mention you know what colors are acceptable to breed her to, but you still don't get that her pedigree is your number one source of info on what you will produce.  If she has black in her pedigree and you breed her to a black, you will probably have black pups as this is a dominant color. 

I would like very much to be able to discuss this in a reasonable fashion, not in a public forum where everyone else gets stuck reading our posts.  I however do NOT feel like stating the truth (even though it is hard to hear) is insulting you directly, and I am sorry again for hurting your feelings, I just think that you don't want to hear anything other than "breed your beautiful harl, it would be a shame not to"

BTW- when you posted on my page, you cited that you felt Harlee had a right to be a Mom, a right to one litter.  Those were your words not mine.

RESPECTFULLY

7

Ok again in all my post I have said that I want someone that knows Danes to examine Harlee not just anyone so I need not to change my mind.  I respect educational suggestions and I am not waiting or want anyone here to say breed my dane. As I said before there is alot of research to do about her colors and her pedigree and I am doing that please trust that I will do the right thing.  I know nothing was said about mutts I put that in there becuase to me mutts are a breed as well they are just as important as pure breed dogs to me and hopefully someone that reads our post understands that it is not a discrimanatory subject thats all.  I am not trying to defend my position about breeding Harlee but my position about doing the right thing to see if I can breed her I know its a fine line buy if we read between them you would see that I am trying to check my options.  If just ONE examination report says this would not be in the best intrest of Miss Harlee I would never do it as I said before. I have to give you credit where credit is due, this was one of the most non judgemental post I have read from you and want to thank you for treating me with respect and dignity.  If this continues I would feel comfortable asking you questions about the breed and maybe getting your point of view on certain topics. 

Thanks again

Tammy

Tammy,

I am NOT a monster, but I think my idea of the "doing the right thing" is a little stricter than yours.  You say to trust you that you will do the right thing, but I have learned you can't trust anyone, especially when it comes to dogs, read our blog about Diesel.

I am glad you found my post more sensitive.  Like I said, I am not out to hurt your feelings, quite honestly I am more concerned about Harlee's feelings : )

You talk about these "exams" that you plan on having on her.  I am curious as to what that means.  Who are you planning on having examine her?  Your best bet would be to enter her in a show and see how she measures up to her peers, then you can ask the judge (or maybe other breeders ringside) what they think, although I would trust the judge before anyone else.

I am sorry that you think I am a bit rash.  I know I tend to be coarse when speaking about dogs but I have learned that this is one subject that just CANNOT be sugarcoated.  There is a right way to breed dogs and a wrong way and the line between the two is very narrow.  It can't be almost or sometimes, it has to be 100%.

That is the way I feel because it is the only way to preserve the breed I love.  Hopefully someday I WILL get to judge danes, I am working towards that now.

7dogs

Fot the medical aspect of it I am having her radiographs and bloodwork done by a Dr who specializes in orthopeadics on dogs he is in the to 10 orthopeads in this state.  as far as examining her as a breed I have a call into her breeder and I am hoping to get more info on that as well and your right I would prefer a judge.  I cannot go to these shows I thought I told you that I just can not travel at anytime I could end up in the hospital for a number of reasons.  My daughter lives with me and is here to take care of my babies if that should happen but she knows nothing about the show ring and quite honestly I dont think she wants to learn but maybe I could find a good handler for Harlee and do it that way but I would so rather be there with her. 

Bad news for the day is that I was watching Miss Harlee walk outside today (my daughter was ahead of me) and noticed that her hind leg turns just a wee bit when she walks.  thats such a no no. My question is it genetic? I also noticed that her behind sways it looks kinda like a wave when she walks kinda cute but I never noticed this in other Danes is this something she will out grow? As for the rest of your reply I am just saying ok.  Ill have to prove myself and that I CAN and WILL do.  I hope that one day you do become a judge but my wish is that you are not a judgemental one.   

To be a judge and a good one at that, you HAVE to be judgemental.  I just hope that I can study the standard to the point where I know it inside and out and just keep showing my baby so I can learn as much as possible.  I didnt start out in a dog show family,  I bought a dane and he turned out to be a very genetically poor specimen of the breed, although he had a heart of gold. The people I bought my second purebred dane from were much better breeders (education through experience) and they taught me ALOT about showing and danes in general.  I never did finish Sunny and she died of bloat so I don't have her anymore.  Eine's breeder actually still owns her until she finishes her championship.  We co-own her.

If you want a judge to go over harlee, why not see if one of your 4-h'rs would want to show her, even in juniors, that way she gets a little ring experience.  I am sure your breeder would be of some help too, most breeders LOVE to see their dogs in the show ring.

As far as her walking funny, I couldn't tell you without seeing her. It sounds like genetics, but it could be just the fact that you are feeding her puppy food and she is growing too fast.  Our breeder doesn't reccomend puppy food for danes as the protein is way too high and it causes them to grow way too fast.  That in itself can screw up their joints and bones.

A quality adult food with protein of 24% or less is good.   Maybe have the vet where you work look at her and watch her walk>?  An xray even at her age will tell alot as well.

Good luck,

7dogs

She is on Large Breed Puppy food the protein cintent average is 26% I have read in studies through work that levels from 15-32% is acceptable but for Giant breeds it should be no more than 27% but I will look at the Science Diet food and see about that as well She hated Nutro.  the fat content in the Large Breed Puppy is also reduced as well in the Iams Large Breed I will have to compare and see what I come up with.  The Dr that is doing the radiographs for me and the bloodwork (I actually work there) said that she waddles like me and it is nothing to worry about she is growing into her body I had to laugh but WADDLES please I dont WADDLE LOL. I seen him at the clinic today and he said he would look at her so I am hoping she is ok I fear for genetic things and ACL MCL problems I have assisted in those surgeries and they are not fun at all.  Like I said it is a slight turn but enought that I noticed it.  My daughter and I checked her pads to make sure nothing was in them as well well  Iguess we will just have to see.

 As far as judgemental I ment about people and again thanks for your help

Tammy

yuck stay away from science diet...

Try natural balance.  Get the blue bag it is formulated for all breeds all life stages, the protein and fat are correct and there is no wheat no corn and no soy.  Of the first 4 ingredients 3 are quality meat sources...

protein really needs to be kept low as great danes grow really fast anyway, they dont really need any help. 

good luck